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- VA: 12 second question about drugs didn’t unreasonably prolong the stop that was going to take a while anyway
- E.D.Tenn.: Application for SW was considered in detention ruling
- TN: RS didn’t develop to continue stop; second stop based on first suppressed
- CA4: Traffic stop immediately became firearms investigation; suppressed
- CA10: Disagreement over spelling of street name didn’t make warrant fail particularity; GFE at least would apply
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ABA Journal Web 100, Best Law Blogs (2015-17) (then discontinued)
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by John Wesley Hall
Criminal Defense Lawyer and
Search and seizure law consultant
Little Rock, Arkansas
Contact: forhall @ aol.com
Search and Seizure (6th ed. 2025)
www.johnwesleyhall.com -
© 2003-26,
online since Feb. 24, 2003 Approx. 600,000 visits (non-robot) since 2012 Approx. 50,000 posts since 2003 (29,000 on WordPress as of 12/31/25) -
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Fourth Amendment cases, citations, and links -
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--Electronic Communications Privacy Act (2012)
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"If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. It isn't, and they don't."
—Me -
"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
–Josh Billings (pseudonym of Henry Wheeler Shaw), Josh Billings on Ice, and Other Things (1868) (erroneously attributed to Robert Louis Stevenson, among others) -
“I am still learning.”
—Domenico Giuntalodi (but misattributed to Michelangelo Buonarroti (common phrase throughout 1500's)). -
"Love work; hate mastery over others; and avoid intimacy with the government."
—Shemaya, in the Thalmud -
"It is a pleasant world we live in, sir, a very pleasant world. There are bad people in it, Mr. Richard, but if there were no bad people, there would be no good lawyers."
—Charles Dickens, “The Old Curiosity Shop ... With a Frontispiece. From a Painting by Geo. Cattermole, Etc.” 255 (1848) -
"A system of law that not only makes certain conduct criminal, but also lays down rules for the conduct of the authorities, often becomes complex in its application to individual cases, and will from time to time produce imperfect results, especially if one's attention is confined to the particular case at bar. Some criminals do go free because of the necessity of keeping government and its servants in their place. That is one of the costs of having and enforcing a Bill of Rights. This country is built on the assumption that the cost is worth paying, and that in the long run we are all both freer and safer if the Constitution is strictly enforced."
—Williams v. Nix, 700 F. 2d 1164, 1173 (8th Cir. 1983) (Richard Sheppard Arnold, J.), rev'd Nix v. Williams, 467 US. 431 (1984). -
"The criminal goes free, if he must, but it is the law that sets him free. Nothing can destroy a government more quickly than its failure to observe its own laws, or worse, its disregard of the charter of its own existence."
—Mapp v. Ohio, 367 U.S. 643, 659 (1961). -
"Any costs the exclusionary rule are costs imposed directly by the Fourth Amendment."
—Yale Kamisar, 86 Mich.L.Rev. 1, 36 n. 151 (1987). -
"There have been powerful hydraulic pressures throughout our history that bear heavily on the Court to water down constitutional guarantees and give the police the upper hand. That hydraulic pressure has probably never been greater than it is today."
— Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 39 (1968) (Douglas, J., dissenting). -
"The great end, for which men entered into society, was to secure their property."
—Entick v. Carrington, 19 How.St.Tr. 1029, 1066, 95 Eng. Rep. 807 (C.P. 1765) -
"It is a fair summary of history to say that the safeguards of liberty have frequently been forged in controversies involving not very nice people. And so, while we are concerned here with a shabby defrauder, we must deal with his case in the context of what are really the great themes expressed by the Fourth Amendment."
—United States v. Rabinowitz, 339 U.S. 56, 69 (1950) (Frankfurter, J., dissenting) -
"The course of true law pertaining to searches and seizures, as enunciated here, has not–to put it mildly–run smooth."
—Chapman v. United States, 365 U.S. 610, 618 (1961) (Frankfurter, J., concurring). -
"A search is a search, even if it happens to disclose nothing but the bottom of a turntable."
—Arizona v. Hicks, 480 U.S. 321, 325 (1987) -
"For the Fourth Amendment protects people, not places. What a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection. ... But what he seeks to preserve as private, even in an area accessible to the public, may be constitutionally protected."
—Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347, 351 (1967) -
“Experience should teach us to be most on guard to protect liberty when the Government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”
—United States v. Olmstead, 277 U.S. 438, 479 (1925) (Brandeis, J., dissenting) -
“Liberty—the freedom from unwarranted
intrusion by government—is as easily lost through insistent nibbles by
government officials who seek to do their jobs too well as by those whose purpose
it is to oppress; the piranha can be as deadly as the shark.”
—United States v. $124,570, 873 F.2d 1240, 1246 (9th Cir. 1989) -
"You can't always get what you want / But if you try sometimes / You just might find / You get what you need."
—Mick Jagger & Keith Richards, Let it Bleed (album, 1969) -
"In Germany, they first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me–and by that time there was nobody left to speak up."
—Martin Niemöller (1945) [he served seven years in a concentration camp] -
“Children grow up thinking the adult world is ordered, rational, fit for purpose. It’s crap. Becoming a man is realising that it’s all rotten. Realising how to celebrate that rottenness, that’s freedom.”
– John le Carré, The Night Manager (1993), line by Richard Roper -
"The point of the Fourth Amendment, which often is not grasped by zealous officers, is not that it denies law enforcement the support of the usual inferences which reasonable men draw from evidence. Its protection consists in requiring that those inferences be drawn by a neutral and detached magistrate instead of being judged by the officer engaged in the often competitive enterprise of ferreting out crime."
—Johnson v. United States, 333 U.S. 10, 13-14 (1948) -
The book was dedicated in the first (1982) and sixth (2025) editions to Justin William Hall (1975-2025). He was three when this project started in 1978.
Website design by Wally Waller, Colorado Springs. 
Category Archives: Knock and talk
NC: Knock-and-talk at side door was unreasonable; the fact def’s friends and occasional buyers went to that door and not obvious front door isn’t an excuse
The police did a knock-and-talk and went to a side door. A knock-and-talk is limited to the door the public goes to. The fact an occasional visitor defendant knew well was permitted to go to another door doesn’t give the … Continue reading
CA11: Ten officers for a “knock and talk” violated Jardines, but it wasn’t the cause of the search of the house
Ten officers approaching defendant’s house for a “knock-and-talk” violated Jardines, but that doesn’t matter because it didn’t lead to the discovery of evidence. Defendant didn’t see them, and he opened the door in response to the knock. Then the officer … Continue reading
W.D.Mo.: During the knock-and-talk def was not “in custody” for Miranda purposes
During the knock-and-talk at defendant’s apartment, he was not “in custody” for Miranda purposes, and his statements could be used against him. United States v. Butler, 2017 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 201765 (W.D. Mo. Nov. 16, 2017), adopted, 2017 U.S. Dist. … Continue reading
CA11: Parolee has no REP where he stays
Officers had cause for a protective sweep as well as consent from defendant’s girlfriend to search her apartment where he often stayed. A shotgun was in plain view. Defendant also had no standing because he was a parolee. United States … Continue reading
FL: A “No Soliciting” sign posted on a home’s front door does not prohibit a knock-and-talk
A “No Soliciting” sign posted on a home’s front door does not prohibit law enforcement officers from conducting a knock-and-talk. People can still approach the front door under Jardines. It’s the law enforcement diversion from business at the door that … Continue reading
OH1: Leaving drug house under surveillance for two weeks was RS
It was reasonable suspicion for defendant to visit a house under surveillance for two weeks as a drug house with detailed collection of information about comings and goings. State v. Donohue, 2017 Ohio App. LEXIS 3668 (1st Dist. Aug. 25, … Continue reading
N.D.Fla.: Entry onto 3-4 acre plot for knock-and-talk lawfully entered curtilage
Defendant lived on a 3-4 acre plot, and police lawfully entered through an open gate to conduct a knock-and-talk at defendant’s door. Exactly where the curtilage ends isn’t clear, but it certainly was close to the house where they were. … Continue reading
MI: Predawn knock-and-talk was a trespass under Jardines; even Girl Scouts know better
Predawn (4 am in one case, 5:30 am in other) knock-and-talk was a trespass and violated social norms under Jardines. Implied license to enter the curtilage is time sensitive. People v. Frederick, 2017 Mich. LEXIS 1113 (June 1, 2017):
WaPo: ‘The Volokh Conspiracy’ Blog: The Fourth Amendment and “no trespassing” signs
WaPo: ‘The Volokh Conspiracy’ Blog: The Fourth Amendment and “no trespassing” signs by Orin Kerr: In light of the uncertainty, I thought I would point out the latest decision on the Fourth Amendment implications of ‘no trespassing’ signs: State v. … Continue reading
TN: Police passing “no trespassing” signs on rural land doesn’t prevent a knock-and-talk
Citing numerous cases, the Tennessee Supreme Court holds that officers passing “no trespassing” signs has no talismanic authority to make a knock-and-talk unreasonable. The overwhelming weight of authority so holds. Police came to defendant’s front door, knocked, and he opened … Continue reading
IN: Even if prolonged knocking can be unreasonable in a knock-and-talk, here it was justified by a chemical smell at the house
Even if prolonged knocking during a knock-and-talk, recognized as potentially unreasonable in United States v. Jerez, 108 F.3d 684 (7th Cir. 1997), was unreasonable, here it was reasonable because it was based on the officers encountering a chemical on the … Continue reading
SC: Entry into backyard for knock-and-talk was really a search violating curtilage
Officers entered defendant’s backyard, the curtilage, to conduct what they called a “knock-and-talk,” but it was really a search by their own admission, and they violated the Fourth Amendment. The trial court was correct in finding the backyard curtilage and … Continue reading
NC: Surrounding house for a knock-and-talk didn’t make the knock-and-talk unreasonable
Defendant had a running generator connected to his house and mold and condensation on the windows. A CI had said that defendant had a grow operation. Officers came to the house and confirmed the generator and windows from the front. … Continue reading
KY: There is no jurisdictional requirement for knock-and-talk
There is no such thing as a jurisdictional requirement that a law enforcement officer outside of his or her jurisdiction can’t come to one’s door to do a knock-and-talk. The officers did nothing more than any other citizen could do … Continue reading
OH3: Burning MJ on lot next to def, with his admission to firefighters it was his MJ and fire, justified knock-and-talk
The fire department was called to an open burn, and the police came along, too. There was the apparent smell of burning marijuana. The officers went to the nearest structure next door for a knock-and-talk about the burning marijuana. The … Continue reading
CA10: Def would lose 4A issue in any event, so no IAC
2255 petitioner argued that state appellate counsel was ineffective for not challenging trial counsel’s ineffectiveness in failing to argue a knock-and-talk. The knock-and-talk would be valid in any event, so there can’t be any IAC. Moore v. McCollum, 2016 U.S. … Continue reading
FL1: Assault of officer on porch attempting to talk to def leading to police entry and more resisting not subject to exclusion
Police came to defendant’s trailer to talk to him about a domestic battery allegation. He refused to come out, and argued at the door with the police. Finally, he reached out and slapped an officer’s hand. That led to them … Continue reading